Curse

Mercury Angel · Apr 23, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

Quests should give rewards that give you money equivalent to the time you could have spent farming. Or at least some worthy reward. That way everybody wins.

Theoretically, many quests are intended to be performed over the course of normal gameplay, and instead of being rewarded for doing them alone, you're receiving their reward in addition to what you normally get, which is supposed to be reward enough as it is.
It may very well.

However, because they usually come with less-than-optimised map paths and monster groups, they're usually not nearly worth it in comparison to ideal farming methods.
This is compounded by some quests that make you go out of your way if you wish to complete them, and often do not include any additional compensation.

That being said, it mostly doesn't bother me, though I have generally considered quest rewards to be a bit lackluster. Unique things like the banana scythe are fun, though.
I'd like to see more quests like the one in Istan with items along the lines of the Minor Vigor rune that can be traded or merchanted, but not sold to the trader. Personally useful, doesn't flood the NPC trader, and a bit unwieldy to sell manually. Perhaps an insignia? Just maybe on skill tomes?

Pushing quests over farming in order to aid the casual player in gearing up and building up their skill options would certainly be consistent with the goals expressed in the first post.

shirosae · Apr 23, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Anet really is making this much more complicated than it needs to be.

People didn't solo farm so they could get 800% loot. They went solo so they could get 100% loot*. Do you see the difference? They went solo, so they could bypass the loot splitting that was forced in the game.

*And avoid wasting time with PUGs and stuff. I digress.

So now, we have some new loot scaling which counteracts the other loot scaling except in the case of those exceptions and no-one ever gets 100% loot, because the new 100% is 12.5%, and sdkljdfhfd

White items are almost all merchant fodder. Blue items are also merchant fodder. Most purple items are, and unfortunately, so are most golds too. Most items in the game are merchant fodder. This is the problem.

If you want to stop people from creating new gold, you need to give them other ways of obtaining it. Hint: Gold req 13 Death Magic bone Staves with +20% Chance of Half Spell Cast of Fire Magic of Warding+7 is not it.

I think if Anet really wants to keep this system, they need to make golds/greens worth trading, and implement a realistic way of trading.

I should rephrase that. I think they should make items which are worth trading gold/green.

I could find a Purple 15^50 req9 max damage Mursaat Hornbow or Hammer with rubbish mods, and it'd sell. Except that i'll only get 12.5% of them now, because of the dual-layer loot scaling. I'll get plenty of merchant-fodder Golds, though.

People are willing to pay for req9 15^50 rare skins (which can be purple in the current system). If golds are now inter-player trading commodity, the colour of a weapon (and therefore whether it's affected by one or both kinds of loot scaling) needs to reflect this. This means not basing the colour of an item on the mods it has, and that means a somewhat far-reaching overhaul, because you can't just repopulate whatever database the game uses to create item drops. It'd require assigned value levels to items based on skin and req type, and then updating those based on popularity and drop-rate.

Greens are a bit harder. There are really too many of them, and with so many copies, most sell for nothing. Again, it seems to come back to skin. I don't see any way of changing that without adding a whole bunch of new weapon mods.

And all of this still won't fix anything until a better trade method is established.

Really, i think it would have been so much easier to just remove the thing that made solo farming so much more profitable, and instead say "Loot now drops without regard for party size or composition. The following items have had drop rates adjusted."

This wouldn't fix the creation of Gold from merchants, but it would have made non-solo farming so much more profitable, and given a more stable base which they could adjust drop rates from.

I think Anet's method might work, eventually. But it's going to need a hell of a lot of work** before it does any good.

**READ: At least an auction house, and a serious overhaul of what is considered a 'rare' item.

Enchanted Warrior · Apr 23, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Gailes post should be sticked and locked. It will only break down and ruin the intent.

FluffyUK · Apr 23, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I'm really worried about the money side of this. Seems to be fewer cash drops even with a full team. Party of 2 people and 4 heroes, completed Sanctum and then fought to Augury rock. My share of the gold was 400g!!

cheeze123 · Apr 23, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Anybody know about loop drop effects on dye? Maybe I'm lucky because I found like 4 under 5 minutes (in hard mode).

Enchanted Warrior · Apr 23, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

For those blaming Anet, for all the loot changes etc.. WRONG. Blame, bots, TOS violators, gold farmers, etc in the game. They are responsible for all negative or perceived negative changes.

blackbird71 · Apr 23, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

For those blaming Anet, for all the loot changes etc.. WRONG. Blame, bots, TOS violators, gold farmers, etc in the game. They are responsible for all negative or perceived negative changes.

Would you please care to elaborate as to why we are wrong? Making an unsupported statement does not make it true, it doesn't even open up the opportunity to discuss the statement reasonably. We have already stated our reasons as to why we are right, but to help you, I have my words here and here. A lot else has been said regarding this, but you'll have to take some time reading the thread to get it all.

Also, please calm down. Making a statement in bold or Caps Lock doesn't make it true either.

However, assuming you are correct, that the problems are being caused by bots, etc.(which I will agree with at least in part), isn't it Anet's responsibility to do something about them? They claim that is part of the purpose of this update, but as many of us have pointed out, in reality it does not hurt the bots nearly as much as it damages the game of the casual player. Put simply, they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and there have to be more effective ways of dealing with the bots than this.

explodemyheart · Apr 23, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

Why would noobs need to go on hard mode farming trips?

Anet clearly stated that HM is ment for experienced guild wars players. The noobs can join up in PUG groups and farm normal mode for some cash. Not much cash indd, but still money.

All you people are complaining that the experienced players are getting it all and the noobs are left to cry in the dark. Anet simply tries to reward you for becomming experienced.

You're defending Anet when you don't even realize that they've been completely contradictory in their statements.

Hard mode is for players who have advanced in the game to the point where they're able to play hard mode. For the more "seasoned" players, if you will.

Yet... wait. Oh? What is the defense for the farming nerf? So that more of the "casual" players can make the same amount of money as the seasoned players? So let's get this straight, shall we?

Hard mode was designed for the experienced players. Not the casual players.
The farming nerf was to help out the casual players. They're the ones that need it most, after all!
They increased the drop rates for items in hard mode.
They decreased the rate of drops in normal mode.

Well, look at that. The rich will get richer and the poor will stay poor.

If Anet was "just trying to reward you for becoming experienced", part of their argument for the nerf would not be "to help out the casual players". Understand that at this point, a lot of the offense taken is in Anet's defense of the change. When Gaile comes here and insults the intelligence of people with ridiculous excuses like these, which numerous people have completely ripped apart thus far, they are not going to fly well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

I just don't get all of you people who are complaining about the nerf to soloing GW.

The name of the game is "Guild Wars" not "Farm Wars" or "Solo Wars". Guild implies more than one person. There are simply better solo fantasy games out there for all those who want to solo and accumulate vast amounts of gold.

Grow up and play the game as it was intended... with other people. Honestly there is nothing in this game that can't be paid for with 15k or less.

How about you quit worrying about how other people play the game and let them play how they choose to play it?

Why do you think henchmen exist? Heroes? So people that don't want to play with other real people can play "by themselves", in essence. Your playstyle is no more right than anybody elses, as long as they're not cheating or scamming. Your obviously well thought out post telling people to grow up certainly does help the discussion at hand. Oh wait...

blackbird71 · Apr 23, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

I apologise if i seem a bit harsh with these things. I can assure you I do have some experience with guild wars, having played 23 months, I can say I am experienced in both PvE and PvP, although I must say I tend to do PvE more.

First I want to thank you for the reasonable and civil tone of your statements. It is attitudes like this that facilitate the free exchange of ideas. I wish more could do the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

Also I can assure you I see the problem. People are very pissed at Anet for 'apperantly' nerfing farming for the casual player. I suggested multiple times that these casual players dont need to invest ages in the game to become very good, but that if they want some money they should simply finish a chapter and try their luck in hard mode.

(boldface added for emphasis)

I still don't think that you do actually understand the complete problem, although you are close. The problem isn't just that Anet "nerfed" farming for the casual player, but that they did it while telling us that what they did was actually good for the casual player. I can't speak for eveyone, but this is what upsets me the most, I don't like hypocrisy and I don't like the feeling that someone isn't being completely honest with me, especially when I've given them money and they are going to ask for more (GWEN and GW2).

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

Arena Net won't change things back the way they were. I used to hate Anet's nerfing stick till you realise that change is needed in such a game, good or bad. Adepting is just as much a part of life as it is in an CORPG.
Simple fact is farming changed.

Some have said that change in an online game, whether good or bad, is necessary, otherwise the game becomes stagnant. I would argue that the opposite is also true, that a lack of change in an online game creates stability and reliability for the players, and they can continue to play the game for the same reasons that they started playing it in the first place.

Which situation is best for the health of an online game? That depends on the nature of the changes and the target group of players. If the changes are ones that introduce new content, then yes, this is generally good for the longevity of a game. If the changes do not involve content, but rather are changes to basic game mechanics which alter the way in which the game is played(like most of the changes we've seen from Anet in recent months),then it becomes a little more difficult. For the avid, "expert" gamer, changes like this are often looked upon as a challenge, a chance to find a new way to play and to breathe new life into the game. However, for the more "casual" gamer, these changes become frustrating, as more of their valuable play time is spent trying to relearn how to play than actually playing. Casual gamers rely on a game's ability to remain steady, so that they can play when they wish or take periods of absence at will without worrying that when they come back, they'll have to learn how to play from scratch.

The problem is that from day one, Anet has advertised Guild Wars as a game for the "casual gamer," where time played did not matter nearly as much as the players' skill. If this were true, there would be few if any changes to the actual mechanics of the game over time. Instead, they have created an environment in which the "casual gamer" must constantly invest time into rediscovering the way the game works. It's not worth it to us, and we feel that we have been deceived by false advertising.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

I suggest all of you guys just stop shouting that Anet is the bad guy and blablabla, because it won't do anyone good. Arena Net has people reading these forums and I'm sure they got the message. This is becoming whining, from both sides. Therefor I won't reply to this topic any more because no-one is adding anything new to the post. Simply a discussion that will last for ages.

I'm sorry that you seem to think that others' logical arguments amount to "whining" and "shouting." I'm also sorry that you feel you must leave because what we say "won't do anyone good." Some of us feel that our comments can have a positive influence on the situation, and as long as we believe that, we will continue to state our views. As to whether or not Anet has "got the message," I'll wait for them to respond and say as much before I decide on that one. I think that Anet still needs to get the message that if they make statements to the community that conflict with what they have said in the past, or that directly contradict their current actions, we will call them on it, and they had better be ready to explain themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

Good luck 'discussing'

And good luck to you, I wish you well in whatever pusuits you choose.

rohlfinator · Apr 23, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by shirosae

If you want to stop people from creating new gold, you need to give them other ways of obtaining it. Hint: Gold req 13 Death Magic bone Staves with +20% Chance of Half Spell Cast of Fire Magic of Warding+7 is not it.

Weapons mods are salvageable for a reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

However, assuming you are correct, that the problems are being caused by bots, etc.(which I will agree with at least in part), isn't it Anet's responsibility to do something about them?

They are doing something about them. That's what this update was for. If there's a better solution, I'm sure they'd be happy to implement it.

(And before someone says it, hiring a team of people whose sole purpose is to track down botters is not a good solution. It's time-consuming and costly, and botters can always buy/steal new accounts. The best way to completely cure botting is to make it unprofitable.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

I used to hate Anet's nerfing stick till you realise that change is needed in such a game, good or bad. Adepting is just as much a part of life as it is in an CORPG.

Agreed. All the players who are threating to switch to WoW are quickly going to realize that all MMOs have rebalancing, and all rebalancing will undoubtedly make some players unhappy. From what I've heard from friends, WoW has just as much "nerfing" as GW, if not more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

How about you quit worrying about how other people play the game and let them play how they choose to play it?

Some people seem to be missing this point: no one is being forbidden to play the game in any particular way.

GloryFox · Apr 23, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

I'll say it again: Why do you think henchmen exist? Heroes? So people that don't want to play with other real people can play "by themselves", in essence. The way this game was set up is so that there is no one way "intended" for it to be played. This is evidence in the fact that you are not required to enter a mission or leave an outpost with the maximum party size.

Many people play by themselves through missions usually do because of a lack of other people or a lack of acceptance with a particular class of character. Assassins are a great example of Hero need. Hero’s was meant to compliment character builds that otherwise can't get into groups or find enough people for groups. Soloing with HERO and Henchmen should be done IMO when there is no other option.

Yes you can play by yourself and that’s fine however I stand by my earlier statement there are simply better SOLO games out on the market. Soloing in GW should be a last resort.

Quote:

You can not blame the overall rudeness and immaturity of players on the existence of players who prefer to play solo.

Yes I can because they would rather go solo then work as a team. You see it daily over and over again. I’m sorry you can't see it. Perhaps if you did not solo so much yourself and leave simply because someone had a bad build. Try talking to that person or be open to builds others would suggest. You might learn something about teamwork.

There is no "I" in team. GW is and should be a team game with "I" being selected because you had no other option.

Dasanko · Apr 23, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Many people play by themselves through missions usually do because of a lack of other people or a lack of acceptance with a particular class of character. Assassins are a great example of Hero need. Hero’s was meant to compliment character builds that otherwise can't get into groups or find enough people for groups. Soloing with HERO and Henchmen should be done IMO when there is no other option.

Well, it may not be the case for you, but as far as it goes for me, most people I know would rather play with heroes/henchmen instead of PUGs, simply because they can't stand the rudeness of some players around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Yes you can play by youself and thats fine however I stand by my earlier statement there are simply better SOLO games out on the market. Soloing in GW should be a last resort.

Yet again, speaking for myself... I play this game just because I like it, I don't want to play with other people most of the time, and no, I don't want to play other solo games out there. If Guild Wars was offline, I assure you that I for one, would rarely ever be seen lurking around online.

Ruby Lightheart · Apr 23, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Ya know..for a game without an auction house or broker...it just dont make sence to me to offer more gold items in hard mode..where are we gonna sell it? Trade chat is so spammy how i anyone supposed to really buy and sell there? Now the trade spammy is overlowing into regular chat even more than it used to be. Sure there are fan site run auctions but...i have found them not a reliable way to sell your loot...maybe its just me but for every 5 "sold" at fan site auctions...1 player actually picks up their item within 5 days, 1 will ignore your mails asking when to meet up and then show message you 2 weeks later and expect you to still be holding onto the item for them..and the other 3 either say they are no longer interested or just ignore all attempts to setup meeting time.

I love GW..and have been playing since propheses orginal beta but Anet..come on..you cant ingore anylonger how badly this game needs a reliable system for players to sell their unwanted loot.

Burma_GW · Apr 23, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

The initial "Loot Drop Update" disrupted the GW economy to such a degree that a "solution" update followed in less then 24 hours. In itself, that is enough to argue the point that the initial update was based upon flawed thinking. The explaination for the update simply adds to the argument additional examples. Consider:

"A major theme of our most recent update is that the game should be friendlier and more rewarding for casual players...". More then 300 interviews with individuals who describe themselves as casual players (a number large enough to allow for a statistically accurate analysis) indicate that the vast majority consider the game less rewarding and less fun to play.

"When farmers earn their money by finding valuable items and selling them to other players, they're making the game more enjoyable for everyone...". An argument based upon authority, not to mention its specious validity. The list of overabundant Green Items continues its visable increase and that excess has denuded the "enjoyment" of having them. In increase availability of Green Items does likely increase the enjoyment of casual players, but only to a point of diminishing returns.

"It's only when solo farming introduces a huge influx of new gold into the economy that it becomes a problem." Another authoritarian argument demonstrating a flawed, or lack thereof, understanding of economics. An influx of available funds into an economy can, considering the extreme opposites, either boost or hinder an existing economy. Well publicised recent examples of the modified tax laws of the United States demonstrate the boost that an increase can stimulate.

Rather then repeat the entire paragraph, please direct you attention to that which begins with, "Because of the way that Guild Wars loot system worked...". A player being able to accumulate GW gold 8 times, or 50 times, or 100 times faster then another is irrelavent without considering weighting. For example, if one in a hundred enjoys that relative production rate, then the influx of gold is hardly critical. I would argue that the ratio of Solo Farmers (or Bots) to causal players is far less then 1/100. Regardless of individual opinions, the availability of GW gold is significantly influenced by online gold sellers. Their existance is all the evidence necessary to comprehend that reality. A simple trend analysis of the price of online gold reveals that many GW updates "intended" to improve gaming enjoyment simply have had the opposite effect, shifting the wealth (both real and virtual) into the hands of professional gold-mining organizations. Go online now to check the prices. Not so long ago one could purchase 500k for less then $30 USD. Today, most offerings are more then double. If you understand economics then ask yourself, "How were they able to increase their prices by more then 100% in such a short time."

"Thus, people who play the game primarily in parties will simply make more money than they previously did." People that I have interviewed overwhelmingly state the opposite. The two most common reasons given are:

1. Fewer monsters.
2. Play less because the game is less fun.

The theory may have some validity, but the reality, currently, reveals something quite different.

More of the same flawed reasoning, "facts", and conclusions exist in the "explaination for the update." But, enough is enough. Hopefully, you see the point.

Even so, this "wisdom tale" is offered as food for thought. Google was picked because of its wide recognition factior. Any of hundreds of other companies could have been picked.

Google has been a remarkable, although not uncommon, success story in the EDP or software industry. Not unlike many, that success began as a function of outstanding ideas by people described as developers. However, the brilliance behind Google does not rest mostly on the shoulders of insightful ideas. The brilliance of the Google success story was the decision to quickly shift the "business" of Google out of the hands of the developers...away from R&D. (ref: e.g. "60 Minutes...Google" or any of a number of published interviews with the co-founders of Google).

Namaste...have fun. In my opinion...fun is a lot better then the alternative.

Loviatar · Apr 23, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

[QUOTE=blackbird71]

Quote:

And Anet told us when we bought the game that it was supposed to reward player skill over time and experience. Do you understand why the hypocrisy and change in attitude has upset us?

THERE HAS BEEN NO CHANGE OR HYPOCRISY

this point of very much importance is illustrated by an early 2 page add in PCGamer.

LEFT PAGE shows a small female standing with the caption of maybe 50 HOURS (long time so i dont remember exact hours and i think she was an ele)

RIGHT PAGE shows a big warrior flat on his back with the caption 400 HOURS (i remember that)

SKILL OVER HOURS SPENT IS PVP NOT PVE

next point is i have been playing PVE only since early beta and my ONLY PVP is a single trip through the academy before i found out that by logging out and right back in i was skipped to the bunker sequence.

as for casual i have about 2000 hours since the preorder 1 day head start and have only played IF/WHEN/AS i feel like it using hero/hench for everything so i can quit at any time i feel like it without letting anybody else down.

Quote:

You obviously don't get the point, or understand who the players are who are having a problem with this update. I humbly ask that you do a little more reading and thinking before posting your rant.

the people complaining are the same crowd that posts every time their money making machine is nerfed.

also the casual player that wants elite hardcore vanity items without being willing to put in the time for them.

a prime example from the nerf thread is this.

*I AM A CASUAL PLAYER WHO WILL NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD FOW ARMOR UNLESS I SOLO AND GET ALL THE HIGH END LOOT FOR MYSELF*

SEE THE PROBLEM?...........A CASUAL PLAYER WAS NEVER INTENDED TO HAVE 15K ARMOR AND HE/SHE IS TAKING FOW ULTIMATE ARMOR FOR HARDCORE LONG TERM PLAYERS AS A GIVEN FOR CASUAL PLAY.

Nomen Mendax · Apr 23, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

...Soloing with HERO and Henchmen should be done IMO when there is no other option.

*my boldface in the quote

It's hard not to be rude when someones says something like this. I really don't understand the mentality of people who think that other people should play the game in a particular way. I'll play the game how I want to, and unlike you it seems, I don't have any desire to convince people that they are playing it the wrong way.

explodemyheart · Apr 23, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dasanko

Yet again, speaking for myself... I play this game just because I like it, I don't want to play with other people most of the time, and no, I don't want to play other solo games out there. If Guild Wars was offline, I assure you that I for one, would rarely ever be seen lurking around online.

QFT.

Seriously, stop telling other people how to play the game or what game to play. Not everybody plays this game just because of the ability to play with other people, they play it because they enjoy the game. If I find another game, online or not, that I enjoy playing, I'll go play that. Until then, this is the game I play. This is the game I enjoy, other people or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Many people play by themselves through missions usually do because of a lack of other people or a lack of acceptance with a particular class of character. Assassins are a great example of Hero need. Hero’s was meant to compliment character builds that otherwise can't get into groups or find enough people for groups.

If you've paid attention to the several threads created on this forum discussing the quality of PUGs (not just by their play style, but because of the complete lack of maturity and couth), you'd know that many people choose not to PUG because of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Soloing with HERO and Henchmen should be done IMO when there is no other option.

The key point to this sentence is that it's your opinion.

Again, there is no one play style to this game that is correct. If there was, Anet would restrict entering missions or leaving outposts to maximum party size of that area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Yes I can because they would rather go solo then work as a team. You see it daily over and over again. I’m sorry you can't see it. Perhaps if you did not solo so much yourself and leave simply because someone had a bad build. Try talking to that person or be open to builds others would suggest. You might learn something about teamwork.

This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Many complaints of PUGs is that they're rude, immature idiots.

I play this game to enjoy myself, as do many many other people. When I'm in a mission with an idiot that is pinging on the minimap over and over and over and over, drawing little boobs and penises, and talking about how cool it is to "rape" something, I am not enjoying myself. I am not going to sit around and endure something that I do not enjoy just because you feel that's how the game should be played. If Anet forced me to do that, I wouldn't play this game and I guarantee you countless others would not either. Obviously, Anet does not agree with you, and that's quite fortunate for their sales.

blackbird71 · Apr 23, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Yes I can because they would rather go solo then work as a team. You see it daily over and over again. I’m sorry you can't see it. Perhaps if you did not solo so much yourself and leave simply because someone had a bad build. Try talking to that person or be open to builds others would suggest. You might learn something about teamwork.

Now you are making assumptions about me. I do not avoid groups because of someone's "build," I could care less what skills they bring as long as they are willing to be a team player and work together. The reason I avoid groups is because I'm sick of people with no respect for other players, people who spout foul language and insults and think that they are so superior to everyone else. I left these people behind in high school, and I have no desire to return to a situation where I am subjected to their immature behavior. What I find ironic is that the inflammatory attitude that I see reflected in your statements seems to be the same attitude that drives me into solo play. Your comments about others here could easily be applied to yourself. You make the assumption that I don't have an open mind when it comes to what sort of builds I must look for in a group, yet you are the one whose mind is fixed about what type of person I must be. Maybe you should listen a little more to what people say instead of jumping to conclusions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

THERE HAS BEEN NO CHANGE OR HYPOCRISY

this point of very much importance is illustrated by an early 2 page add in PCGamer.

LEFT PAGE shows a small female standing with the caption of maybe 50 HOURS (long time so i dont remember exact hours and i think she was an ele)

RIGHT PAGE shows a big warrior flat on his back with the caption 400 HOURS (i remember that)

SKILL OVER HOURS SPENT IS PVP NOT PVE

next point is i have been playing PVE only since early beta and my ONLY PVP is a single trip through the academy before i found out that by logging out and right back in i was skipped to the bunker sequence.

as for casual i have about 2000 hours since the preorder 1 day head start and have only played IF/WHEN/AS i feel like it using hero/hench for everything so i can quit at any time i feel like it without letting anybody else down.

the people complaining are the same crowd that posts every time their money making machine is nerfed.

also the casual player that wants elite hardcore vanity items without being willing to put in the time for them.

a prime example from the nerf thread is this.

*I AM A CASUAL PLAYER WHO WILL NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD FOW ARMOR UNLESS I SOLO AND GET ALL THE HIGH END LOOT FOR MYSELF*

SEE THE PROBLEM?...........A CASUAL PLAYER WAS NEVER INTENDED TO HAVE 15K ARMOR AND HE/SHE IS TAKING FOW ULTIMATE ARMOR FOR HARDCORE LONG TERM PLAYERS AS A GIVEN FOR CASUAL PLAY.

First off, would you please tone it down? There's no need for yelling, virtual or otherwise.

Secondly, if you are going to read my posts, please read the posts which they quote and respond to, my comments make much more sense when kept in context.

Thirdly, if there has been no change, what do you call the game update which added Hard Mode and changed the loot system? Anet calls it a change. The players see it as a change. The mechanics of the game are not the same today as they were a week ago. By definition, this is a change. How is there no change?

As for the hypocrisy, let me elaborate(since you don't seem to care to return to previous posts which have outlined this in detail):
Under normal circumstances, I would agree with you that a "casual" player does not need the high-end expensive items such as 15k armor, etc. However, back on page 10 of this thread, Gaile Gray(who, may I remind you, is a representative of Anet) had this to say about the reasons for the change and casual players and high-priced items:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I will explain the reasoning for the change:
...

All players were seeing high prices for the most desirable items; they noted a push to unattainable of items they wanted to get.
The only players able to attain the coolest items fell into a certain player type, the farmer.
This reduced the fun factor of the game, in that the game seemed to require that players play in a certain way if they wanted to get those items.
Farming is ok with us, no problem at all, but we did not intend that farming would be "required," or that only farmers would be able to obtain the coolest items.
...

Here's one way of looking at it, perhaps this will make sense to some: The intention of loot scaling is not to "punish" the expert farmer. The intention is remove the numeric punishment that was previously inflicted upon those who play casually and/or who play in a party.

Now, if you accept Gaile Gray's validity as a representative of Anet, then you must therefore accept that her official statements are the will and intentions of Anet. Therefore, as she has stated, it is the intent of Anet that the high-priced items in the game (i.e. the 15k armors, etc.) be more easily attainable for the "casual player." It is cited as a reason for the update itself.

The hypocrisy comes in when one compares the statements of Anet's reasons for the changes to the true effect which those changes have on the game. According to the experience and analysis of myself and many others who have listed their views here, the reality is that these new changes have little impact on the "professional" farmer, but rather make it even more difficult for the "casual player" to afford the high-end items. Gaile said that it was never their intention that only farmers could afford the "coolest" items in the game, but the fact of the matter is these changes have not removed the need to farm to obtain these items, rather they have amplified the need. Add to this the fact that Anet has always claimed that the focus of the game was for the casual player, and there you have the change in Anet's attitude. The words coming from Anet do not match their actions. By definition, this is hypocrisy.

See how much easier it is to communicate when we remain calm and rational?

Blackhawk · Apr 23, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Looking at some of these posts, I'd say it's pretty obvious why people prefer to go solo or with hench.

Saves any arguments over how you choose to play regardless if your "Hardcore" or "Casual"

Inde · Apr 23, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Any insults to an individual or the community as a whole will be deleted. Please keep your posts on topic and contributing.